One of he best arguments I ever got into with a person on the topic of ID went something like this.

(them) Scientists lie to us all the time to forward their Atheist agenda!

(me) All Scentists?

(them) Pretty much all of em! they spin lies to make us loose faith!

(Me) Like the lies of medicine, refrigeration, Television , Physics All of that.. its not real

(them) Thats not Science!

(me) Yes it is , or more to the point it took science and its 'Lies' to make them come true . Perhaps I can ask you a question? IF you had your arm cut off would you like 15 doctors working on you , or 15 people praying for you.

(them) .......

(me ) Good , now shut the fuck up. Science has made the Lame walk, the afflicted cured, and now the blind see.. Pretty good trick for something made of lies.

solion,

Love this exchange. In many ways this debate can't happen, because on one hand you have a group (rationalists/empiricists) that are at least willing to argue the merits and liabilities of science, while the other participants are irrationalists, or very watered down empiricists (I had a drunken hallucination, thought God talked to me while I pooped out the virgin mary).

This is a time honored conflict that will only go away once I create a scientific invention that will not only make those God huggers lose their faith, but will cause them to die a painful death that science can't even cure. And that will be evolution's masterstroke.

I found Jesus. He was under the sofa cushion, next to the TV remote and some loose change.